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Comments: Maxed Out

Agreed, even more important: Max is a horrible campaigner.

Both of his Senate campaigns were marked by an almost Dukakisian inertia. He barely beat Guy Millner, an awful campaigner who, in retrospect, did more for Georgia Democrats over the past decade than Zell Miller.

Why is Max a rotten campaigner? don't know, but here's a guess: Everybody likes Max. (including me.) As far back ask I can remember, everybody has always liked Max. Thus, he seems quite content just to show up at events and be told how everybody likes him. In a nutshell: When you go to a Max Cleland event, you remember the introduction of Max more than you remember Max's speech.

This doesn't work when people don't already like you. Campaiging is about -making people like you. I have never seen Max Cleland do that, especially not over a sustained campaign.

Max Cleland: Don't pick on him, but don't pick him either.

Posted by emcee fleshy at March 8, 2004 06:24 PM

What about Roy Barnes for Senate? A Senate campaign could seriously remake his image, especially outside of Atlanta.

Posted by Tim Cairl at March 15, 2004 08:42 AM

Unfortunately the Senate campaign is probably going to be a pretty negative one. And Roy's negatives are already to high to engage in this kind of campaign. Other than that he's a good candidate. He can self fund, which is crucia, and raise a lot of money. The biggest problem for Roy is timing -- not long enough since '02 and Perdue hasn't done THAT bad this quickly so the contrast isn't clear enough yet.

Posted by Chris at March 15, 2004 09:10 AM

Max Cleland lost for two reasons. One is that he allowed the Homeland Security Act to be held hostage to government employee unions. The second and by far the most serious is that Max Cleland ran on a platform of "vote for me because I lost an arm and two legs in Vietnam". Since when does being an amputee guarantee you a senate seat? He had no other qualifications. He has a very liberal voting record and was a part of the Daschle cabal. That dog don't hunt in Georgia.

Posted by Shayne Dobbins at March 18, 2004 10:54 AM

I suspect Shayne Dobbins is correct -- that Max Cleland's appeal was essentially limited to "vote for me because I lost an arm and two legs in Vietnam." I heard him in a lengthy interview last week on Steve Malzberg's radio show, and although I was predisposed to like him, he emerged as unforgivably stupid -- really, a loud, dumb, inarticulate, low-class boob who repeated the same ideas and phrases, over and over, and used sheer loudness and bluster instead of cogent argument. I was, to say the least, extremely disappointed; this guy is simply not senatorial material.

Posted by Ted at March 18, 2004 02:14 PM

Also, it needs to be mentioned that Max Cleland barely won his first US Senate race in 1996 (less than a 100,000 votes statewide) against a weak GOP challenger, when Max had been elected statewide repeatedly, and in a presidential cycle when Bill Clinton was beating Bob Dole handily. Notwithstanding ALL of those advantages, Cleland barely won.

He made matters worse by establishing a well-deserved reputation for a solid, liberal voting record for the first 4 years of his tenure.

Finally, after GWB received 55% of the vote in Georgia in 2000, Cleland voted AGAINST Bush on tax cuts, the Ashcroft nomination, and homeland security, while Democratic Senator Zell Miller repeatedly backed GWB's position.

In short, he did everything possible to make it almost impossible to save his seat.

Why is anyone surprised that Georgia voters concluded that Max was out of step with them?

Posted by Megan Reef at March 18, 2004 02:55 PM

You all are missing a very big part of the 2002 election. The governor's race. Sonny Perdue ran on the Confederate flag and got tens of thousands of voters from rural Georgia to vote for Perdue solely because of Barnes' change in the state flag. Those same voters then made the easy choice once in the voting booth to pull the lever for Chambliss too - they had no reason to split tickets for Cleland once they were there.

These are the most arch-conservative people in the state - but probably not regular off-year voters. What struck me most was how the polls were so wrong on Chambliss-Cleland, which usually means an unusually high turnout from some unforeseen source. (I'd make the same claim about the recent Spanish elections, by the way). The unforeseen source was the Confederate battle flag/state flag voters.

Posted by Elrod at March 18, 2004 03:38 PM

I will add, however, that I agree with those above who say he is a terrible campaigner. Max qua Max:) just ain't enough for a one-term Senator in a state trending the other way.

One rumor I've heard is Stan Kasten (owner of the Braves, Hawks and Thrashers). Now why would Georgia vote for a New York Jew? Well, he's filthy rich and can flood the airwaves with whatever message he wants. All things considered a hugely self-funded Dem. candidate might be the only choice the Dems have in Georgia. And it would force the GOP to spend money in GA that it didn't think was necessary.

Posted by Elrod at March 18, 2004 03:42 PM

Do you make the assumption that all the supporters of the Confederate Battle Flag are Republicans? These nutjobs strike me more as Boll Weevil democrats or one issue republicans. The under educated and rural southerner has usually been very loyal to the democrats. I see more of these votes going against Barnes but for Cleland. And I also think you overestimate the numbers of voters that even cared about the flag issue and underestimate the feeling that Republicans had in this state that there might actually be a chance to unseat Barnes and Cleland if they got out and voted.

Posted by Steven Freeman at March 18, 2004 04:36 PM

And btw- Stan Kaston is from New Jersey and worked for the Hawks, Thrashers and Braves (He was not the owner of any team), but has since been let go from all his positions and is currently unemployed.

Posted by Steven Freeman at March 18, 2004 04:41 PM

Someone I know pretty high up in GA Republican circles told me that Cleland pulled the pin on the grenade, dropped it, and tried to put the pin back in, all on a dare. Not exactly a "training accident."

Posted by Bob Redman at March 18, 2004 05:01 PM

Cleland lost his limbs to a grenade accident, not in combat. But that really isn't the issue. The issue, as has been pointed out here is that Max was too liberal for Georgia. He made it the first time because he WAS a vet and he WAS liked.

But that only gets you a chance.

Had he been the least bit politically astute he'd have figured out that GA isn't going to tolerate a liberal. He obviously felt he could ride the goodwill he had through his first term and into his second. Obviously it didn't happen. Max, however, chooses to blame a Republican smear campaign for his demise rather than his liberal voting record.

Posted by McQ at March 18, 2004 05:44 PM

"he emerged as unforgivably stupid -- really, a loud, dumb, inarticulate, low-class boob who repeated the same ideas and phrases, over and over, and used sheer loudness and bluster instead of cogent argument. I was, to say the least, extremely disappointed; this guy is simply not senatorial material."

Sounds exactly like senatorial material to me. Of course, my US senators are Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, so that may affect my opinion somewhat.

Posted by Jim at March 18, 2004 07:10 PM

I think Cleland lost for essential for reaosns

1) He didn't have any partiuclar reason eg clout ,legislative achievement for people to vote for him , he hadn't had in 1996

2) Also mentioned by posters so far his voting record was much more liberal than the Georgia electorate-Zell Miller is much closer to the center of Georgia.

3)Not mentioned so far is the massive boost of turnout by Republicans in the Georgia suburbs thanks to Ralph reed's massive GOTV operation -meant all R caniddates did better there than they wouldh ave otherwise .

4) Chambliss and Perdue just exceptionally good candiates. iN the former case that was particualry his national security experince but key is that his from South Rurul Georgia. In Georgia blacks and a few white liberals mainly in urban areas are the D core Conservative Surburbanites (mainly in Greater Atlanata) the Republican, moderate Surburbanties swing to some extent but the real swing vote are rurul whites- the secret of George Wallace, Jimmy Carter and Zell Miller. They'd voted for Bush but also for D's generallty lower down partiucaly in South Georgia, Chambliss's appeal allowed him to secure this swing vote-in the last days he just had to pick up people in the surbubs who vote for any reasoanlbe R candidate anyway.

Posted by tom at March 18, 2004 07:11 PM

So Confederate flag voters still stick to the Democratic Party? Haven't they been paying attention the past 30 years? Well, if they haven't been paying attention the last 140 years why should they change their minds over the last 30.

(I guess I had Kasten's job and location wrong - I heard about it from Kos. Sorry.)

I do bet the flaggers were a BIG part of Ralph Reed's GOTV effort in rural south Georgia. The issues dovetailed perfectly - a governor who dares recognize the South just might have been wrong in 1861, a fundamentalist shitbag who runs the GOP and who's mastered the anti-scientific method gang, and a Dem candidate too afraid to fight back against neo-fascist Saxby! Oh well. Thank God I live in the Land of Lincoln where we have a chance to vote for the third black Senator since Reconstruction - and the second from Illinois. Think John Lewis could win in Georgia? Not a snark. I'm serious. He's fantastic.

Posted by Elrod at March 18, 2004 07:51 PM

"Cleland lost his limbs to a grenade accident, not in combat."

He lost his limbs to a friendly-fire grenade accident on a combat mission. If his chopper had crashed on that combat mission due to mechnical problems, we wouldn't feel the need the qualify if so carefully, would we?

Bob Redman- someone I know high up the Bullshit Detector Agency told me that you couldn't get laid in a Bangkok whorehouse. Save your pathetic attempts to start rumors for the water-cooler, punk.
(I mean, did you stop to ask yourself why someone in the Georgia GOP would know details about Cleland's injuries that the Army didn't know? Dumbfuck.)

I suspect that Cleland isn't the answer for regional political reasons. He isn't going to deliver Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, or Florida. He's lefty enough not to resonate with conservative vets. What's the appeal?

Wu

Posted by Carleton Wu at March 19, 2004 03:41 PM

Bob Redman:

That sounds like a pretty bad dare, once the lever is released the fuse starts burning and putting the pin back in won't do anything.

Posted by Ben Coates at March 20, 2004 08:03 AM

I stand corrected.

It was not a combat mission; that was why he did not receive the Purple Heart.

Well documented here...

http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2004/021804p.htm

Posted by Carleton Wu at March 20, 2004 01:51 PM

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